morning note: this seems like even less of a good idea than it did, oh, 6 or so hours ago when i wrote it, but i’m in no mood to be prudent. also i’m having major internal conflicts on whether i should go in to work like a good girl, or be half a day late due to urgently crawling around the floor plugging wires into boxes and randomly hope the internet gets faster. but this has nothing to do with what had me all worked up last night.
* * *
i should have taken it as a sign when i got this half-typed and my computer did one of its catastrophic clunk-choke-gasp-BSOD things. i’m not one for conflict, but occasionally something upsets me to the point i go all stubborn-bitch. as it is, i’ll wait for the light of day to post it, morning me is a far more timid creature and may think better of this. two am me says, deal.
i was told this evening, that there are people, plural, a goodly number of them, who are upset that the vegas blogcon was held in vegas, who feel that that choice of venue was disrespectful to the east coasters. and this i do not understand. at all. the question was posed, why not the midwest, a compromise? well, because no matter where you hold an event, it’s going to be better for some, and worse for others. a midwestern event would have excluded some folks from both coasts, and an eastern event would have excluded some folks from the west, there’s no avoiding that. the only solution is to do things like this, the east coast blogger gathering. put it this way — for as inconvenient as vegas was to the eastcoasters, it would have been just as inconvenient for the westcoasters to hold it on the east. blogcon vegas was not a vast left coast conspiracy.
i’m a great believer in bloggers gathering. i think it should be done as often as possible and in as many places as there are groups of people willing to organize. there will be people who can and will travel from all over to get there, but most importantly the folks who can’t go far, will get the opportunity to attend an event near them, hopefully without arousing any animosity amongst those who aren’t near the event and also can’t go far.
acknowledging at this point that it’s pointless to object to the opinions of others; then again, reserving my right to respond to direct criticism with a reasonable defense, all the while observing that it’s my blog and i can be pointless if i so choose, also asseverating that i actually do have a point here, somewhere.
I’m going to just ditto everything jilly said. Because she’s right. ‘
It’s true, we’ll never be able to hold it in a place that’s good for everyone–or at a time that’s good for everyone. I think when you plan something that big, you have to take all the input you get, make as fair of a decision as you can, and let it stand.
Speaking of get togethers…I’m putting a poll up on my site today about the next LA gathering…
Ok, the Hawai’i perspective: Vegas is about the only place where it’s economically feasible for islanders, because it’s made (as pointed out above by Bill) cheap enough to get there. Having said that, I refrained from voting then, knowing I couldn’t attend; I don’t get this revisionist nonsense.
Dammit, why do people try to provoke this stuff? Isn’t life short enough?
Oh, and Alison, I’m so gonna come visit your blog; anyone who works in baseball is worth getting to know better! Grins…
kd, as i’m sure you’re aware, no matter what you do about [ insert ANY subject ] people are gonna bitch.
didn’t we learn in kindergarten that majority rules? ..um.. the last presidential election notwithstanding.
the only reason i couldn’t go was lack of money. it could have been in [ insert ANY location ] and i’d have been there if i had the money.
I do not understand the genesis of this post and I can think of an awful lot of people you could have been talking to, KD. And I’m not calling into question your surprise.
What’s done is done and there’s not a lot of sense rehashing but, but the tone of these comments, honestly, makes my blood boil with the revisionist claims of revisionism. In the interests of disclosure: I cancelled my reservations because I decided not to fly. Nevertheless, as someone who was told early on and repeatedly to butt out of the planning if I wouldn’t tow the west coast party line, I find the tone here in the comments to be offensive, they smack of guilty conciences to me. Sure, I supported the Vegas plan, but was there really any other option honestly considered?
Who was left on the East Coast besides CC to plan after the East Coasters were cut out of planning? By my reckoning, it was all California folk, CC and Batty? Am I missing anyone?
I want to make it very clear that I do not wish to fight about this. I do find it sad that someone’s feelings are clearly being dismissed here in a very nasty way. Honestly, I do not like to comment on a conversation I wasn’t privvy too and I can only speak for myself and I can say from experience that Blogcon planning involved a two choices: shut up, or rally around vegas on the message board.
To be clear, I don’t care where it was held and I feel like what was past is past. I’m torn between making it a private email to KD or even not posting this. If it was just KD’s post I probably would move along, but the mob mentality of the comments makes me sad. Not angry, but sad. I’m sure my comment will fall on deaf ears, but I would be unhappy with myself if I just read this, silently, said “hey, I know the words to that song,” and then moved on without comment.
Maybe it’s just if you’re in the Southern half of the US, but I was always under the impression that flying to Vegas was cheap for just about anyone?
Speaking as both a member of the “mob” and a conspirator, I can honestly say that I never once told anyone who offered input to put up or shut up. If people were told to shut up during the planning stages of BlogCon, I knew nothing of it, and I’m willing to bet the majority of the other planners feel this way, also. I’m just completely shocked about this.
FYI: We’ve had a poll on the site regarding BlogCon 2003 for some time now, and Vegas is winning as the venue again, New Orleans coming in as a second choice.
vegas was chosen because it is cheap to get there. and it’s meant for conventions, is packed with entertainment, and was the perfect spot for weddings.
i was always under the impression that we settled on vegas for these reasons, chiefly for the cheap airfare deals, so that more people could afford to come. we talked about either coast. we talked about the middle. we settled on vegas, because it *is* a major hub of convention type activity.
and i never picked up any kind of strong-arm vibe like what you describe “shut up, or rally around vegas on the message board”. sure there were all those other dramas going on in the blogworld in general back then, but i never got the impression there was coersion happening at the blog con boards. “as someone who was told early on and repeatedly to butt out of the planning if I wouldn’t tow the west coast party line” — who the hell told you that?
“I do find it sad that someone’s feelings are clearly being dismissed here in a very nasty way.” — no. someone’s opinion is being disagreed with. in a logical fashion. look, i got yelled at and called disrespectful and hung up on, because i wouldn’t agree that having blogcon in vegas was a slap in the face of the east coast. it was implied that we chose vegas with no regard for anyone but californians who could drive there. as if selfishness and disrespect were the major driving forces behind the decision.
so this upset me. it’s still upsetting me. a lot.
Far be it from me to suggest all you freaks come to my town, but doesn’t it make the most sense to just converge in austin during sxsw? I mean, I avoid it like the plague, but I hear it’s pretty cool. And it’s in march, I think…and it’s RELATIVELY central.
shrug.
well but SXSW is a place where people go to get all serious about their creative technology, and what blogcon was meant to be was just a bunch of bloggers goofing off. no booths, no workshops, no panel discussions, just … goofing off. and vegas, well, it’s a place to seriously goof off.
Speaking as one who has gone to sxsw for work – it is a lot of fun — BUT — finding a hotel is usually a nightmare and a half unless you book way in advance.
Yeah – I have relatives in Austin and friends – and know that it’s hell to find any hotel space during sxsw. Unfortunately.
And it’s all in the past. I had fun.
We should do it again.
As Soon as I’ve had time to rest and recoop.
And save some $, ya know?
I just looked into it, and it would be cheaper for me to go to Vegas than to go to New York or Halifax from Montreal. Which is pretty impressive.
I really don’t see why this has turned into such a huge problem. As nikki said you can’t please everyone all of the time, personally I think that Vegas is a great idea. It’s cheaper to get to then some other places. They have great convention centers. Great place to goof of and have fun. Well that’s just my two cents worth. As of yet we haven’t been able to make it to any gatherings; time, money, commitments and a huge case of shyness being the cause, but I cannot begrudge anyone the chance to go somewhere and have fun, even though it means that we could not attend.
Well, speaking as a east coast resident who had nothing to do with anything then or now, but was around for most of the public talks, I didn’t mind that it was gonna be in Vegas, although I knew it would lessen my chances of coming. However, I did hope it would be hosted on my end of the US in 2003, but so far the east coast is losing at the polls and that’s no one person’s fault.
Anytime there is a convention of some sort, there will be people who aren’t happy. The equitable thing to do would be to switch sites each year and next year have it somewhere closer to the East coast.
Skarlet’s comments remind me that it’s pretty much never a good idea for me to open my mouth when my buttons have been pushed. And here’s why: My experience of how BlogCon was organized, and whether there was room for input, etc. was entirely different from what she described. But I completely believe Skarlet when she says that it was that way for her. As with every other part of my life, I am once again reminded that we each have different experiences of things.
From that perspective, I can understand that somebody, or some folks, felt that the decision to have the event in Vegas was unfair to those not on the west coast. That wasn’t my perception, but I shouldn’t have made it about whether someone was rewriting history or not. It’s just about a different experience than the one I had, not a negation of my experience. And I shouldn’t have tried to negate anyone else’s experience.
One last thing: being pissed off most certainly had nothing to do with any guilty conscience on my part. I have nothing to feel guilty about as regards BlogCon.
I did however feel guilty about losing my temper here, hence my return to these comments to admit that I overreacted to something I disagreed with.
Why would anybody get upset about the location of a blogger get-together? Sure, I wish I could have been to Vegas last year or SF last weekend, but the reality of the situation is that my priorities and commitments (and checkbook balance) didn’t allow it.
Still, I’m glad some people had a good time, and can’t understand how it would benefit anybody to be bitter that I don’t live near where they were. It’s a big world, we can’t be everywhere we want to be.
It’s so hard to get everyone to one central location in the middle of the country. I’d love to go to blogcon or something like that. A lot of times I can’t it either. It’s like with having little ones all over, at least I can make half an effort to go to some of them. And someday soon, I hopefully can make a big one too.
what? Blogcon was SO last year.
Also, I’m guessing that it might actually be cheaper to travel to Vegas than to other, closer places, if only because Vegas wants to encourage people to come to get their wallets sucked dry.
Well, I wanted to go to Vegas.
I made plans to go.
It just didn’t work out for me in the end….
Maybe this year, okay??
Do you happen to know if there is gonna be a BlogCon for 2003?
As someone who organized two conventions for an online group I belong to, I just had to ad my $.02
I live in New York. Both of our conventions were in Las Vegas – first year we had over 40 people and stayed on the strip at the MGM. Second year, we had @ 20, went even cheaper and stayed downtown at the California.
We had a voting session, nominated a bunch of cities and then voted. Vegas won for all the reasons stated above – flight convenience and price, we got a fantastic hotel deal both years, there was a lot to do.
The other cities nominated included LA, NY, Chicago, Vancouver, NO, St.L, Dallas, & Orlando. I personally priced everything from hotel packages to flights to food and entertainment in every single one of the top 10 nominated cities – including estimated flight costs from about 20 different cities in the US and Canada. I had some help, but this was what we did so that when everyone voted, they had a clear cut idea of what it would cost. Vegas was the cheapest for everything. It’s not my idea of a vacation City, but for the purpose of a convention and meeting people, it is the perfect venue.
Sure, there were people who were upset because they couldn’t come, they felt it should have been on the east coast, or more “central”.
My online friends this year, (different group) are having a con in Flagstaff in July. Last year, it was in Arkansas, the year before in Williamsburg, VA, and the year before that in NY. We nominate, we vote, if you can make it, you go, if not, oh well, end of story. It’s a democratic process. I always try to be objective with these things. NY was nominated, and I voted for AZ. You have to determine the most important factor in choosing a place, and from my experience, the number 1 priority has ALWAYS been: How much is it going to cost.
We have mini-get togethers all the time for those of us who live nearby. You make the best of it. For this east coast blog con we’re having in March, they could have chosen NYC, but instead, we’re all schlepping to -e-’s.
I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I did want to say, kd, I’ve been in your shoes, and there’s no reason for you to apologize or feel badly. There was no conspiracy – you did the best you could. People will always be a little selfish when voting, and that’s ok – everyone wants to participate. But if you can’t be objective, then that’s YOUR problem – not the group’s.
It’s true – you can NEVER please everyone, kd, so there’s no sense in stressing over it.
oohhh- there was a party in las vegas? (i’m so out of touch with this sort of “blog” thing) if there is another, please be in vegas so i can spend some $$$ in the casinos!
btw – that was a general YOUR – didn’t mean you, kd!
Edit to say: If people can’t be objective that’s THEIR problem
Ok – I feel better now.
one of the reasons we picked vegas was the tendency for really good travel deals, and the fact it’s widely considered a major convention center for people all over the country.
one of the reasons i take this so personally is that i was fairly instrumental in the committee that decided on vegas, and so the thought that people thought that there was disrespect or something involved in the decision, well, it bothered me.
oh, and nikki, yeah, last august in vegas — it was nuts. who knows, maybe vegas again this year?
also there are lots of LA get-togethers, well, there have been … lemme see, three? or two, one of those numbers. and there will be more.
bloggers gather all over. it’s such a good thing.
sounds like fun- count on us for the next one!
and don’t take anything personally- you can’t please all of the people, all of the time- nope, not even you, kd.
There are so many of you I’d love to meet at one of these things.
The venue should be the choice of those willing to host / organize the thing…IMNSHO.
If Nik and BobbyG and KD are going…I’m gonna try my best, too…be it Vegas, Liverpool, or Moscow.
BlogOn,
Broad
you said “asseverating”
yup.
How funny would it be if it turned into an east coast/west coast thing, like Snoop Dog and Puff Daddy (before he was P. Diddy)? And yes, Vegas is cheaper than a lot of other places, especially if people were to book into a hotel as a group, which (from what I remember) you guys did last year. And flights aren’t that bad either.
Arugh. I would have forked up the couple hundred bucks and flown out in a second (I’m in the northeast), but I can’t do ANYTHING in the summer – I work in baseball, so my summers are filled up with constant work, work, work. Maybe I will check out this east-coast gathering.
and it’s a really fun bunch, too. hey, there’s convergence enough for everyone, really there is.
Well, I’m going to be cranky, and right in public. Not only was the decision to hold BlogCon not made exclusively by West Coasters, the decision was made with imput from a whole hell of a lot of people, not just the organizing crew. Check the orginal board and blog. It’s all documented.
I strongly suspect that what is going on is a total rewriting of history. Folks didn’t come to Blogcon for a whole bunch of reasons: distance, money, disinterest, pissed off at someone they thought was going, the cat puked. But, none of it was due to a vast left coast conspiracy, expecially since a significant number of the original planners were NOT from the left coast. I just find this accusation specious. TRANSLATION: What a bunch of bullshit and what a rewriting of the actual history.
Have a gathering wherever and whenever you want, call it what you want. But if you then decide not to go, don’t rewrite history to suit your convienance.
Man oh man. I am especially cranky about this because I never friggin wanted it in L.V. I hate L.V. But the arguments for why to have it there were good ones: cheap hotel and travel rates, easy accomodations for large groups, non-stop action, etc. And because most people said that’s where they wanted it!!!!!!!
I tell you one thing, I’m never doing any trip the first week of school again – waaay too much to get done that week!
And if we’d really wanted to be fair and hold it in a place that was equal distance for everyone – we would have had it in the middle of Kansas. Only I happen to know that there’s nothing to see there. Heh.
Bottom line was we went for the largest city that would have airfare deals and have lots for everyone to *do* in case we were bored silly with each other. Yeah, it was harder for some of the eastern folk to go. And now there’s a gathering on the east coast, so all is well. It’s not anyone’s fault – like you said, the more convergence the better!
I think no matter where it was some people would have complained. It’s the nature of the beast and all that stuff. I know if I hadn’t been out of the country I would have been in vegas that weekend! I was even hoping there would be another one there this year! Oh and I would take the half day option otherwise the wires would be all I would be thinking about at work.
Am I being overly sensitive here in thinking that this East Coast Gathering (Note I’m not calling it “Blog Con II”.) is being bashed here????
A couple of nasty remarks are here… why???
Why state “that there are people, plural, a goodly number of them” objecting to BlogCon being held in Vegas. What does BlogCon have to do with any of this??? Why make the people working on this into bad guys two days into the planning?
Exactly what did *I* say against BlogCon and where it was held???? I was also an East Coaster that was going to make it. In the end, it wasn’t financially possible. When BlogCon was going on, I supported it in my writing. I kept all the inside bullshit to myself because I thought it was a good thing.
Am I taking this personally? Damn fucking straight. It’s in my hometown, and a lot of good people who had NOTHING TO DO WITH EVEN BLOGS are getting slammed here. There’s enough backhanded bullshit being said here to see this is an attack.
This is not a goddamned competition here.
Us “plural” people are putting this together, so that maybe the East Coasters can have some fun too didn’t bash Blog Con. And didn’t deserve this worded like this. Everyone’s welcome… but I know realistically, it’s going to be difficult for anyone outside of the tri-state area to make it.
So, uh, thanks for spreading the word?
a) this whole debate about east vs west coast is leaving out our international friends.
b) i live in eugene, oregon and it will be cheaper for me to go to the east coast blog gathering than it would have been for me to go to las vegas.
c) chicago really is the most reasonable place to have a blog gathering for the usa cause 1- its a major plane hub 2- it is kinda in the middle of the country and 3- fyi, 2/3 of the american population lives w/in a 12 hour drive of the appalachain trail (this is based on readings i did in the early 90′s), therefore it would make sense that for the most people to be able to go, las vegas just doesn’t make sense.
d) i nominate seattle for the next one, cause i can drive there. or wait, even better, EUGENE, OREGON. or, so i can visit the folks, BLACKSBURG, VIRGINIA, you can go see where the movie dirty dancing was filmed!
well, as far as this year’s location, the vote over at the blogcon site is running heavily in favor of vegas. and since vegas worked out so well for the last one, it’s very likely that we’ll make that gathering a regular thing.
i would love to see more gatherings like the Poconos one being planned. there should be blogger conventions happening every couple months. heck, with those handy cellular modem thingys, nomadic groups of bloggers could just follow the convention circuit, kind of like folks used to follow the grateful dead shows. we’d call them blogheads.
and harmony would prevail throughout blogland, and jupiter would align with mars, and peace would guide the planets, and love would steer the stars.
“and harmony would prevail throughout blogland, and jupiter would align with mars, and peace would guide the planets, and love would steer the stars.”
Just what is it you’re implying, kd? lol … I’m sorry, that was just too funny …
If you really wanted to go to BlogCon, you would have found a way: plane train bus or automobile. If you didn’t want to go, you didn’t. Period.
KD, don’t let the jerks get you down. I had a great time and I would have had a great time where ever it was held because I *really* wanted to be there.
They’re just making excuses and trying to make you feel bad in the process. Its their problem… not yours.
this discussion has gone all sorts of places, but it all started with me saying that the east coast blogcon was a GOOD THING and i ended up getting yelled at because of blogcon vegas (this happened in a private conversation, and upset me greatly). all i was trying to say is that more meetings is a GOOD THING and that it isn’t logical to be mad because blogcon the first ended up in vegas, since MORE GATHERINGS are the only answer to the issue of people feeling that they are being slighted by having the gatherings too far away.
fuck no it’s not a fucking competition. it’s a GOOD THING. HAVE I MADE MYSELF FUCKING CLEAR ABOUT THE GOOD THING PART YET? SHOULD I USE A LARGER FONT?
the vote over at the blogcon site is running heavily in favor of vegas. and since vegas worked out so well for the last one, it’s very likely that we’ll make that gathering a regular thing.
And who even knows this vote thing is going on? Yeah, right, that’s what I thought. It worked out well for west coast folk before and it will again. Just don’t pretend it’s a national event, because it is so clearly not. If it were, it would rotate around the country, without voting, given that all voting is now skewed by the people who attended in the first place and the poll is not nearly popluated enough for the entire blog universe to know about.
Nice try, but you’re still west coast snobs that don’t give a crap about the rest of us. But that’s OK.
The ‘voting thing’ has been going on since around August 27. We put the poll up a few days after we got back from Vegas.
And who even knows this vote thing is going on?
well, anyone who visits the blogcon page would know.
Just don’t pretend it’s a national event, because it is so clearly not. If it were, it would rotate around the country
it’s a national event by virtue of having people who showed up from many different parts of the country – including the northwest, the east, and the south. as far as “pretending”, there’s not a lot of pretense involved here — it’s a gathering. the organizers decided it would be in vegas, for any number of reasons, and that worked out. it’s a gathering, and it’s in vegas, that’s about it. the significance being attached to it is entirely out of proportion to what it is.
why this fairly simple, small event, attended by, oh, maybe twenty people, is being attacked for not being … something different than what it is, is beyond me.
now get on over to the comdex site and bitch at those organizers for having their only US event in vegas. those comdex people are such snobs, not thinking of the east coast. and the damn CES folks! calling it an international show when it’s only in vegas! shit! and the list goes on!
no one ever said that blogcon is the be-all, end-all of blogger convergences. so, you know, if vegas doesn’t work for you, plan your own.
i just don’t get why people gathering in vegas is so damn offensive.
hmm, well, accusing someone of having lousy motives, yelling at them and refusing to listen to a word they say in their own defense, then hanging up on them, isn’t much of a phone conversation is it? i don’t have the best coping skills for being talked to like i’m a piece of shit then hung up on. maybe i should have just kept this inside and let it eat at me, knowing that i allow myself to be treated like … nothing.
like nothing. told to shut up and agree with a very negative assessment of the issues (and myself), and then when i refused, i was summarily dismissed. just like that. well, i can be hung up on. but i can’t be silenced.
If you really wanted to go to BlogCon, you would have found a way: plane train bus or automobile. If you didn’t want to go, you didn’t. Period.
Whoa. That’s a big ol’ blanket statement if I’ve ever seen one. Tam, I wanted desperately to go to BlogCon and couldn’t because my better half had no vacation time from work. To go to Vegas by automobile would take us two days at the minimum. That’s four days of just driving to get there and back. Definitely not doable when you have to be at work during the week.
The same will apply for the East Coast gathering although the drive time is shorter I believe. This time he had to use his vacation days because his mother died in December. Shit happens and people can’t do what they want for a myriad of reasons. Point is, for some people it was just too far to go to Vegas. No matter where it is, it will be too far for some. That doesn’t mean people are being “jerks”. Just means you can’t possibly please everyone.
I for one would love to see BlogCon moved from one place to another with the core organizers attending no matter where it was held. That probably could never happen because it wouldn’t be convenient for one or more of them to get to the other coast or wherever. Would that make them a jerk?
speaking as a person who right now could not go to blogcon if it were held five miles from my house and i had someone to give me a ride, i know it can be difficult to get from point a to point b.
four of seven of the organizers were west coasters. of the three east coasters, only one made it.
which suggests to me that it probably wasn’t practical to attempt (and apparently fail) to make one event for everyone. which is why i think it’s such a good idea that people host regional events. as i said in my post, which has sort of been lost in the shuffle here, is that it’s a Good Thing to have more places to meet. rotating years is one idea but that’s too far apart. several events every year would be ideal. like, quarterly. with local organizers to prevent the sort of issues seen here.
it’s logical and practical, it might not fulfill whatever high expectations folks formed of the first one, but sometimes you just have to make do. part of which is not to get all vicious and accuse others of fucking it up.
more locations, more events, planned locally = a good thing. i made the mistake of seeing this in a positive light and got slammed for it.
Hawai’i one is tentatively scheduled for Feb. 16. None of us made it to BlogCon last time, and probably none will make it this time either, so we’ll just have to have our own mini-version. Which isn’t to say anyone who has vacation time and lives on the mainland isn’t welcome.
when i redesign the blogcon site for this year, i’m going to include a list of any events i’m aware of, to promote this regional conventioning. it really is the way to go.